This transcript was generated from YouTube captions and lightly edited for readability. Speaker labels may be unavailable, and transcription errors may remain.
Intro#
Hello and welcome to Graduate Theory today’s episode is episode 52 of Graduate Theory which means it’s been about a year of Graduate Theory episodes we’ve had an episode come out every Tuesday for pretty much a year now it’s been a wild Journey there’s been so many guests on the show so much knowledge.
That’s been shared and so many learnings the things that I’ve learned myself I don’t know what the next steps look like perhaps we’ll do a season two but what I am sure is I’m going to try and find a way to summarize a lot of the content that we’ve had and the ideas.
That have been shared on the show if you want to keep up to date with that you want to find out um what exactly we’re working on please go to the description subscribe to The Graduate Theory newsletter and you’ll hear all about what is coming up soon but without further Ado I want to.
Introduce this last episode this is a really um a really personal episode I flipped the tables a little bit and got interviewed by a friend of mine Joe wiebe who you may remember or um I interviewed him for the first episode of the podcast so it was great to have him back on the.
Show interviewing me and asking me what are the things that I learned what are my favorite moments of the podcast and just some general Reflections around starting podcasts generally things that I learned and how the podcast has affected my life so without further Ado we’ll pass it over to the episode but I.
Just want to thank you everyone that’s that listens to Graduate Theory it has been an amazing journey so far and yeah just from the bottom of my heart I just want to say a big thank you for for listening to the show it does mean a lot to me um you know that I’m able to share.
This with you and that you’ll take the time and listen to the kinds of things I have to say um you know I feel really grateful so I just want to say a massive thank you um but that’s enough for me let’s get uh let’s get down to the episode and yeah.
Please enjoy I guess I wanted to do like a bit of a.
Joey Intro#
Reflection of what one previous step almost one here oh it’s probably over a year including preparation for the First episodes but yeah I think it would be nice to recap given that is you know 52 is a reasonable milestone it’s been an interesting year a lot of learnings both in and out of the podcast a lot of.
Growth a lot of lessons yeah so maybe we can uh introduce you um for those who haven’t those who have missed you on your previous appearances on the Pod baby do you want to share your uh quick bio thanks thanks Jay for having me back obviously I am for those who haven’t seen in the podcast before.
I’m Joe wavy and uh I am a writer a podcaster myself I’ve done a bunch of other things I’ll save everyone a long story but I’ve done I’ve studied psychology done non-profit stuff in Nepal done a bit of real estate and also stuffina education but yeah kind of uh I guess love anything about creativity and a lot.
Of stuff about you know a lot of the same topics that talk about the podcast like career and meaningful career and impactful and all that sort of things hover around the same conversations and often the books I write probably relevant to that and that’s probably very good oh you sound like well yeah absolutely.
Mate no it sounds like um it’d be yeah I’m Keen to do a bit of a reverse interview is that what they call it reverse interview that’s what professional podcasters would call it I don’t know something like that probably is that what they call yeah that must be your name yeah you can invent it you can coin that.
That’s good yeah yeah that’s right you heard it here first yeah very good well yeah I’d love to sort of dive into some of the um the history of the Pod um and we can kick it off.
Reflecting on One Year#
Yeah well congratulations on a year for you but I’m sure it’s been a bit longer than that preparing how does it how does it feel because you’re a Mr consistency in our little community of podcasters James Franco’s missing and so you don’t miss a week unless I’m mistaken so 52 episodes on the dock and uh I don’t know.
How does it feel I think it feels good I think when I when I first started I’m not sure what I expected but um I feel I feel good that I’ve managed to come this far I think a lot of people when I when I say like I have a podcast and then then I say I’ve done.
50 episodes they go like all podcast yeah cool 50 oh that’s really good yeah um uh you know so I’m proud of that I think that’s like obviously I’ve had a lot of help and support along the way but I think the um you know consistency is kind of hard not to crack uh it’s quite easy to start.
But doing it for a long time is um saying it’s quite hard to do so yeah I’m I’m very proud of that I think that’s something that probably I’ve in other projects I’ve done in the past probably like it’s been the one thing that you sort of struggle with it’s like um it’s easier to think of an idea and.
Start it but the consistency is the one thing that you know sort of lets you down so yeah I’m I’m proud that it’s been a year and very consistent um and yeah I’m happy with how it’s going I think it’s been pretty good learning experience for me and for the people listening as well.
I think a pair would provide a platform for some very interesting people that perhaps don’t have a big platform themselves um another Graduate Theory is a big platform but you know it just allows them to get there very big for someone who has no platform yeah true true um but you know these people like have.
Great messages and they often don’t get shown to um like a certain demographic because people and so it’s been cool to sort of highlight that.
Expectations when Starting#
Yeah that’s a very mature and selfless reflection I think but um did you have an expectation at all about when you started make did you was it I never even knew to be honest I was talking to you when you started of course but did you uh expect you were just trialing it or we did you.
Think you would go x-far or you had I want to at least get to this point well I’m very curious yeah I don’t really know I think that like I think this question for me probably changed a lot and that like continues to fluctuate like at certain certain points I think oh it’d be cool.
To have this as like a side business where I’m like you know have all this stuff and like it’s all like this whole massive operation like that would be really cool or is it like um you know is it just more of a side thing where it’s I just interview someone every week and it’s a bit more.
Chilled um and I think I’ve fluctuated between those quite a bit during the process because yeah I’m thinking back I was thinking before this episode about like what led up to even starting the Pod and I remember and I think you would remember this chair I had an Instagram page which was like.
Um or maybe what’s out like 18 months ago now um for probably four months-ish I had that and that’s a similar thing where I was kind of like what what is the expectation here and I’ve probably didn’t it didn’t really have one it was just I want to share and like um you know contribute and I guess.
Potentially turn it into something more substantial um but perhaps that’s to my own undoing is that there’s not a sort of a clear thing there but I think regardless it’s been valuable yeah no I remember that very well well I guess it’s never never the at the end of the world it’s it’s funny when you say the.
Fluctuation I think it’s such a relatable um thing for podcasters because it can be the most casual thing in the world but also there’s there’s a lot of things that come through it I mean you must have enjoyed I’m sure and one thing you enjoyed is the people you kind of I think reached out to connected with.
Probably a lot of podcasts to say it’s uh not necessarily like you get to meet the same people without a podcast that easy excuse it’s a very digestible ask you know kind of like a squashes some objections that people might normally have to just have in a conversation with someone.
Standout People or Episodes#
So I don’t know whoever who are those people you think you found a community that were like but you don’t have to say me I’m here James you’re already on the left side yeah audience knows but it’s hard for me um who are the uh who are those who do you think anyone Stand Out particular.
Yeah I think just on on the general point about having access to interesting people and I would extend that to interesting things I feel like there’s certain like because when I started like that was like probably when I started was when early work started to gain a lot of traction in the Australian.
Startup space um you know so that was quite cool and then next chapter as well kind of started around a similar time I think and so access to these communities would be an example of like I probably wouldn’t have the access and know certain people inside those places um if I didn’t have the Pod so I think.
That’s been that’s been cool um and I think just interesting people I think like Adam gahar is a great example he’s very well connected and I’ve like uh you introduced me to him and then I’ve introduced him subsequently to other people so uh you know that’s been cool to sort of be able to have access.
To him and then for it’s it’s not even like a my benefit almost it’s like people who know me also kind of can can have access to some of these people as well um so yeah I think It’s probably hard to narrow it down to like a soft list of people but I think.
Generally it’s been quite interesting to like hear from different people and see what they’re doing um and kind of sit like just see the kinds of places and what interesting people are doing um I think it’s almost like broadened my horizons perhaps I probably couldn’t narrow it to like knowing a specific person like alleged.
Just so that makes sense a lot of I think a lot of the value what you get from our conversations it can be very intangible you get a lot you get a lot of value from just talking to anyone like any of the people you mentioned or a lot of the other guests you had on but it can be.
Very hard to actually pinpoint specific things it soaks into people on the layer much deeper Naval says this it’s like listening to podcasts all that sort of thing it’s kind of like there’s not it’s not totally conscious learning it’s it’s kind of like a soaking in effect because it’s very hard to pinpoint but.
You kind of uh I don’t project onto you my experience but you generally just feel you feel like you feel like wow I’m learning so much this is very stimulating I kind of think it I think it makes you think a bit differently at times it’s a natural very natural the same way you would be talking to anyone.
And just softly learning from them so but yeah you’ve had some bumper episodes that’s for sure yeah for me even like the gaha one was very very good episode um obviously I Luke and I love the Gilly one that’s just that a lot listen to that a couple of times and um I know I haven’t even talked to.
You know like that way but you hear you hear them on an episode it’s a very I think it was very true that you gave uh he gave a lot of people like that an interesting a chance to tell their story and share some of their insights and I think that’s something you should be very.
Proud of and the beauty of it I think you did it so they’re up there forever yeah that’s right yeah so yeah yeah no you’re spot on I think that yeah there are many episodes tonight I enjoy doing I think those two definitely the Gilly one had an impact on on lots of people and probably more.
Than I expected um which is which is um you know it’s pretty cool it I guess facilitate that um yeah I think there’s many episodes that I think even that are sort of underrated um that I personally had a great time and learn a lot um like the Michael Dixon one was like.
Was really good that was a very good one.
Personal Development Through the Podcast#
That’s right the very recent yeah so exactly because it’s recently he’s a good one yeah yeah yeah yeah how do you think how do you think you personally developed as the podcast went well the key areas are different about you now this is when you started yeah I think I think yeah I think a few things I.
Think like on a sort of interviewing level I think I learned quite a bit I think from from the first one that we did it was that was with you I think the very interesting uh you know that was like it was a good in a good interview but I think I’ve progressed a lot.
Further since then I think I’ve kind of experimented with different approaches um you know and kind of landed on a good way of doing things it’s because I think when we when we was first starting it was like got no idea how this works have a crack see what happens I would have made you very nervous as.
Well true strong character it’s not easy yeah no but uh and even well yeah I’ve not many points here but yeah so there’s like the actual interviewing which I think I there were periods where I was very like q a and I think that sort of uh come back to more conversational probably in the last certain amount of.
Time I think you know I’ve kind of weaved around different um approaches of the actual interview I think I’ve landed somewhere that’s quite good um which is like a more relaxed way of doing things like no intro to start chatting I think that’s generally has worked the best um I think as well I remember the.
So I had Darren Fleming on like it yeah and so yeah yeah and uh at the end of the interview I was like hey man I know Darren like very well so I was like do you know anyone else like can I chat to them like whatever and he gave me like these two.
Guys phone numbers it was um Oscar tromboli and ishan uh who I’ve interviewed both but when he gave me their phone numbers I was like my heart actually call this guy like I was like scared out of my mind maybe maybe I think everyone’s had at least some level of that experience but you.
Like I really don’t want to call this number uh you know uh and so and things like that so I think like from a sort of guests Reach Out is um you know many people have said no to come on the show so I think dealing with that has been interesting and I think.
It’s helped me with like reaching out to people not for the Pod like it’s it’s seeing like the access that I can have to people for like Graduate Theory uh you know which is relatively unknown you know it really showed me just how reaching out to people you can you can speak to a lot of different people.
Um you don’t necessarily need a podcast or something to chatter them on like I think people are just generally quite receptive and often like people that you know people who have big profiles obviously we can’t it’s hard to reach out to them but like there’s certain people that don’t have big profiles maybe it’s like the CEO of.
Your company or like you know these kinds of people you can you actually get reasonably far um if you do want to speak to them and ask them interesting things.
Advice for People When Creating a Podcast#
So do you have any advice or Reflections for people who are maybe they don’t have a podcast but if they feel like they want to reach out to someone internally is a big one like leadership at the company you’re at is one I hear about a lot or just someone whose work you find.
Interesting I might be fishing in the wrong spot here but are there any lessons or takeaways you’d have for like yeah I did like I did a reasonable amount of like Research into cold emails and so I have like a template that I use yeah because I guess like I’m reaching out to enough people.
Like you want to have somewhat templated but then before you do want to have a specific like ask and a specific reason why you’re reaching out to this particular person uh like if you just emailed over on the exact same thing obviously that’s not going to be very effective um so yeah I think I think you want to.
Tailor it to the person in that like minor I start with like try and mention something recent that they did so usually it’s on their LinkedIn I’ll try and see if they post or done anything recently comment on that and say cool hey doing this introduce yourself and then say why you’re reaching out so like.
You for in my case it’d be podcast I found you through this Avenue um and perhaps like some social proof like I’ve previously interviewed some of your friends and like in certain friends names um so that they know it’s not just like some not some very strange person like I have to have some credibility and then.
I would then go here’s like three things I want to speak to you about and so this would be I would have already gone and looked at their profile things they’ve done and see what is what about this person that I want to actually ask about and like how would I find this interview.
And then I’ll put that in and then I would um probably put like some kind of Link at the end and say if you’re interested here’s like the calendar whatever like link you want to go to you could probably put it there or wait for them to respond and say yes I’m Keen.
Then send them the link but yeah that’s how that’s generally how I would do it I think you want like some sort of social proof and fairly specific about why you’re reaching out to them as well I think that’s very important yeah the I agree the um so that’s that’s very interesting on like the podcast.
Side and what about uh because you know the theme of the podcast was The Graduate level kind of experience or thereabouts so I did it were there any big changes on that side of things for you like how you thought about your own career or things to do kind of differently but like I know it’s not just work in a like.
A little container and it impacts the rest of life too around the theme of your career and work but there any any like.
Changes in Life Approach#
You’re at the same company that’s like you change your roles or anything that I’m allowed maybe internally changed but were there any any real any real noticeable changes in some of the like the ways you approach the working part of life if that makes sense yeah I think I think like before I started.
Interviewing people I one of the biggest things I’ve learned is probably about startups I’m like before I started the part I was like never I don’t think I’d really sort of delved into this world before um and never really heard anything about it and so I think through interviewing people I like I’ve interviewed a number.
Of like CEOs of stuff like um yeah it’s like Andrew and um um so I would say that has been interesting and even in terms of like how someone would uh like craft their career in like a 10-year time you know people talk about like what’s the optimal way to like structure things like when’s it a good.
Idea when’s a good time to do this when’s it a good time to do this like things like that um and you know one of the one of the ways I’ve seen people do it is like corporate for like like get into a good grad program whatever for like two years-ish maybe more then go join a startup that’s like.
You know sort of try and pick a good one that’s um going places and if it goes places that’s great if not you’ve had corporate experience so it’s not too a story that I’ve heard a lot of times okay so the logic is that you’ve got enough experience and like experience in terms of skills and.
Experience in terms of uh like a track record working in certain type of role that it’s easier for you to get another new job is that’s right yeah yeah yeah it’d be like going straight from you to a startup is like kind of hard because there’s a lot of yeah at least from what.
I’ve heard because there’s just like so much to learn it’s like I kind of like you got thrown in the deep end of the pool it’s like you sort of need to be able to swim a little bit so you don’t try uh you know so and that’s hard to describe and so I think.
Like so probably that’d be one reason why you’d want to have some experience first and then the second ways would be if the startup fails for whatever reason yeah that you have some proof that you are sensible and um you’ve worked it like a good place before you know so it’s like it’s less.
Risky if you and it like went back there it went to a similar um did a similar thing yep yeah yeah I think that’s definitely one I think what else I think like I can’t like point to any specifics but I think there’s been many uh like and I’ll go and find these but there’s been a few.
Times where someone has said like questions they’ll ask of a company before they join or like how to know if the company is going to be a good fit for you or like what questions to ask um during the interview process things like that there’s been quite a few episodes where people will just go ask.
Bang bang bang like you know here’s like four and so um four or five or whatever so I think like compiling a list of that would be interesting to see get some good ideas for things to ask at these different stages yeah because I think things like that it’s kind of hard to think about like.
How do you know if a company is going to be a good fit for you like when you’re looking for your next role what is that um what does that process look like um things like that I think I’ve learned a lot about how different people have navigated this and that’s been quite interesting to me.
And useful yeah I sort of remember it was the episode there I was at McKinsey yeah sure on I think sure on that one had a lot of very practical like uh yeah but for that world like uh what was it would you call it summer just internships in general to that kind of like yeah the language but.
Yeah when you’re at University age you’re looking to get roles in that southern neck of the woods that was very um it was a hell of a process yeah yeah proactive about it that guy yeah and uh yeah I think like when I was at work that’s the kind of thing that I just had.
No idea like how it even worked um because I wasn’t friends with anyone that was doing that process like there was just no one around me that I could see doing that um and so it’s really it was very interesting to hear like the level of detail and thought that goes into preparing for those.
Things and like the interviews and whatever like there’s this whole culture almost around like really jobs at these places yeah um and so and a lot of it to me was unknown so it was yeah very interesting to hear how it all works yeah it’s a fascinating fascinating thing so the other thing I.
Was uh curious about because we were talking a bit about this before in this episode but it is interesting I give guess given it’s been a year if you were to if you were to start over is there anything you would have done differently.
Things I Would Do Differently#
Looking back on this on this journey is there anything that you think about I think I think one of the things that I’ve haven’t met is good without as I would have liked is like like it’s sort of marketing the pod um you know through social media and other places I think there’s been.
Periods where I’ve done that well and the part has grown it’s like a decent amount during those periods but I think the consistency of episodes has been there but consistency of like the marketing and the social media posts and whatever hasn’t really been there entire time so I think if I could rewind I.
Would try and be more consistent in those areas so I think that would have brought more eyeballs onto the Pod um how do you put it down to um probably like possible yeah no I think it is hard to do I think probably one would be the clarity that I uh we were talking about earlier.
I think it would have helped if I had a clear idea of what exactly are it was aiming to achieve that would have made a lot of these things easier to like justify in my head perhaps um whereas like you know if you’re going from like Enterprise pod to like casual pod on the weekend yeah so it’s like you.
Know for one month I’m like let’s post every day twice a day like whatever let’s go really hard and then the next weekend it’s like yeah this is just like a chill thing like a week like we don’t even need to do or like or like whatever after no biggies kind of thing.
Um so yeah I think the consistency on that side probably wasn’t there um but I think like and maybe in hindsight too I could have like dm’d some like like maybe I didn’t push the guests like I feel like I could have reached out to maybe some more high profile people and got some notes um yeah I felt.
Like yeah I think reflecting now I feel like I could have you know tried some long shots a bit more like I think so I got some pretty good guests on but I think that there’s levels of the game and I think I could have yeah I could have chucked a few more like ambitious.
Are there any big names on the dream in the Dr in the theoretical dream yesterday well someone that’s gone around a little bit is like Malcolm Turnbull and gets like he’s been on I’ve made a few different ones um I’m not sure if you have some things to say yeah I’m not sure if I did end up.
Emailing someone like yeah I can’t remember I maybe did it in you know someone that was like I think I got his so like his LinkedIn page someone sent me like an email that’s like associated with it but it’s not his email it’s like someone else like it’s a different thing it doesn’t.
Have like Malcolm or anything in the in the email and I think I maybe emailed that but I didn’t hear back so whatever you know but he’d be an example and like but say like um you know like the CEOs of atlassian or whatever and I think it’s one guy maybe it’s a CEO yeah the co-founders of.
Atlassian um you know these kinds of people that are like sort of international um would have been quite interesting just to like like because that’s a like a macro point is it like they say no whatever like it doesn’t really matter um but you know you don’t really know kind of how far you can go until you’re.
Getting those so uh I think perhaps I didn’t go go I could have gone harder there and got more of those and then I would have known a really sort of pushing the limits sounds like you need a bit more um David Goggins and yeah yeah while you were doing Outreach maybe yeah.
Although you’re a man who has holds himself to very high standards I think you’ve done a good job but yeah it’s uh on paper it just always makes sense oh if someone says no what’s what’s the problem with that something in the world but I guess it’s another thing to um perceived rejection or whatever there’s.
Still another thing entirely so yeah I think it’s almost worse people when people say yes and then they just don’t follow through that’s just like more frustrating it’s like yeah yeah why are we stuck here you feel like you’ve gotten something and make plans yeah yeah like you’ve already kind of celebrated the yes.
At least like at least that responded like a kid I think of my real estate days where you felt like you had someone who’s buying a home so that meant a lot of you know money or you know there’s a real not just like someone’s got on the podcast and then it falls through and.
It’s like the biggest roller coaster experience it makes everything else seem very small in in comparison so I guess that’s why it’s a bit it’s a bit anti-fragile in that way if you can get used to that sort of thing but it’s a bloody it’s a bloody world yeah that’s why you have to become pretty bloody um.
Stoic yeah it’s not it’s not always a fun ride yeah yeah I think I obviously a pod is like not like running a company but like there are like some parallels I think but maybe getting like a little too oh yeah any project like this is like a business like in a way so it does have a similar.
Dynamics even if it’s complexity is different um different type of thing but yeah you don’t think out of those moving parts yeah.
The Plan#
You can’t get away from it so what’s the plan from here 52 where you see done the Year what’s your yeah the plan what’s the plan from here is we’ll see I think season two is um a potential at this stage um no I’d say like 50 50. it maybe it depends on like um.
I think at this point like it’s Neil it’s it’s October we’ll leave it to the end of the year and see how they feel next year um I would say it’s likely that if I did come back to the Pod that it would be like season two would be a slightly different theme because I think things.
Like this maybe have to follow my own interests on some level and I think that’s the interest of like a starting University or sorry starting work after University and like the university experience these are like not as interesting to me as they were last year so I think I would you know it would I think I think if I.
Was going to go and do more podcasting it might be maybe it wouldn’t be called gradual Theory maybe it would I don’t know but you know what I mean I think I’d be more focused on the kind of like early to mid-career stuff like how do you become and maybe even more focused.
On like my career path even even um yeah so like how do you go from so for example I do engineering at work so like how did how do you go from like admit to senior level engineer like how do you become like CTO or something like that yeah those questions would be.
More interesting to me I think than um like like how do you get your first job after University yeah so yeah I think that’s the only selling you can talk about that yeah yeah and I think like probably part of the reason why um Keen to sort of stop things now it’s because yeah I feel like we’ve covered.
That topic to a deep like a decent degree and I think a lot of the guests I’ve had on with we kind of speak about more General things than than just that anyway like even most the officers aren’t even really aimed at like uni like like it’s it’s definitely more just general life advice.
Maybe aim to the younger audience so I think there’s that yeah yeah well it’s something I think Gilly I think said to me wants to talk about a similar theme and he said that uh being alive in the 80s and things like that you notice when the concept of career coaches and stuff came into.
Become mainstream or started popping up and he hasn’t quickly the main flavor of them turned from career coaching to sweatlight but if you think of it life coaching stuff like that came from it was essentially connected to it’s connected to everything else that was a big theme in Gillies I mean heaps of people’s episodes but it was.
Definitely a theme in Gilly’s episode too so naturally it always jumps around you know some cement related things so and uni is the same like Uni’s connected too normally career um in most cases so when you’re at Uni you can see uni and there’s only so much you can optimize uni when really it’s trying to serve.
Something else you know so you’re just not over optimizing the uni experience maybe but you’re thinking about where does it go so it’s quite natural and then naturally I always think that the more like it’s very it’s it’s almost like the a good sign when you feel like you’re outgrowing something and if.
That’s the language you’d use but if it’s if you’re not outgrowing something it’s almost maybe opposite maybe it’s limiting yeah well it just depends like naturally you should evolve you shouldn’t get stuck in the one thing like in theory like a business evolves you know if they say that about Berkshire Hathaway like uh Charlie.
Munger Warren Buffett like one thing that worked for Berkshire Hathaway this decade didn’t work for them in the in the next decade they keep Reinventing themselves of you know sporting teams like that right and I think that’s um you know someone who’s kind of watched you along this this journey I think it’s.
Been really great to watch and hopefully I speak for a lot of the other people who’ve listened and enjoyed watching alongside as well because it’s very it’s very rewarding and easy to underappreciate just watching someone who’s very honestly and open-mindedly going on the journey like I don’t I again this is just my.
Reflection of you but it’s not like I have all the answers or you know I have I have everything it’s just very open like there’s cool people um a regular kind of relatable thing I’m interested in making the most of my career my time I want to be intentional about it what can I learn from these people.
Around me what is what is out there I know it’s just so I would say it’s just so relatable I think it’s just so relatable I think it’s interesting people still watching at this point that it can maybe they feel themselves evolving too who knows so nice they’re complex things right it’s.
You can’t really pin put one pin in it and if you could it’s probably not the best thing and a lack of uh when you talk about like Clarity and stuff I just think about that too sometimes it’s really good I always think of clarity like a set of circles like a ripple like.
It’s like a continual journey in yeah um it’s just ring by ring layer by layer and I don’t think it ever ends that someone who’s a little bit older I don’t know if I can pull the age card here but yeah I don’t know sorry that’s my rambling but no no I agree.
Yeah I think you know yeah I agree with what he is what you’re saying like you know there’s the idea of like Seasons you know some things are around for a season and then you go do something else and it’s all it’s not uh not necessarily bad you know to do something for a bit and then do.
Something else like it’s all in the pursuit of um enjoying the experience of Life yeah you know I think it’s happy to do that every now and then true you know and I think it’s been cool I mean yeah I’m not like some super fortunate person really like I think most people I mean there is some.
Element of Fortune perhaps but I think like I’m not really special in any way so I think a lot of the things that I’ve done and the sort of Journey that I’ve had I think many people could um do something similar and hopefully it’s um hopefully my experience shows that it’s not that things like this are.
Within reach perhaps of um people can actually do this now there’s no um beauty of the internet is there’s no real barriers to this kind of thing you know like there’s no barrier to asking your company’s boss like out for coffee yeah um you know anyone can do that um so I think it’s.
Yeah I think it’s been cool it’s been yeah it’s been very cool I feel very fortunate I’ve been able to speak to so many interesting people that I’ve like yeah giving me their time and their lessons.
Advice for Graduates#
Yeah well the one of the last things I just want to make sure I threw in there because you’re probably too modest to say it yourself and uh you know the word unspecial is a tricky one because there’s something here I get you like relatable and all that and not too.
Different circumstances why there’s a lot of people out there but there’s something very special I think about what you’ve done but I told you this story and to bring it back to Gilly sorry but once again it was uh he was he was explaining to me how because he’s what 75 and he.
Had these people from his ee group and for whatever reason one of his schoolmates was Googling his name and found this long interview that he was in and he um this guy his schoolmate you know 75 is a little bit of school what 50 something years before together um watched watched the whole interview.
Couldn’t he said to Michael I couldn’t put it down I couldn’t stop watching it was so engaging just learning about his story and he insisted to all the people in their year I know they probably use email or something people of that age he said everyone has to watch this interview you know this look at what everything.
Michael achieved and whatever and um I remember that episode again you know Luke and I talked about and I know people going through very difficult times in their career who found episodes like that very useful for them and uh I just wanted to mention that because I think it’s there’s minor look it from.
The outside sometimes but there’s been a lot of things like that and there might be more that you’re not aware of that are very special things to have done for people while you are humbly just looking to I guess enhance your own wisdom so I hope that you and other people who’ve been along for the journey.
Appreciate things like that because that’s very special yeah absolutely and that’s what it’s all about is uh yeah stories like that and yeah episode there was a lot of like friends of ours like you said and watched it and it had it impacted them you know people have come and said certain things about.
Other episodes to me and said you know this one was really helpful during this period like of my life and really helped me do this thing or whatever um I said that’s quite cool it’s it’s cool you know that sort of I’m able to have fun speaking to people who are hopefully having fun speaking to me and.
We’re able to share the conversation that’s able to you know help other people I think it’s just a win-win-win it really is yeah it really is wow do you have any other I mean I feel like turning your your own question back on you at this point around the advice you would give to Young graduates or.
Unless I’ve butchered it I believe that’s the question or early version of yourself but is there you know not to put pressure on you mate but you’ve done 52 episodes you’ve talked to some incredible people including episode one with Joey really high caliber people a lot of wisdom more than probably more than 52 hours of.
Insight and everything like that and stuff in between so no pressure but James out of all that distilling it in a single question to assess your worth um yeah and seriously what is what is top of mind right right now for you in terms of your your distilled like yeah I think answer.
That question yeah I think firstly it’s hard to sum up all the episodes right so I think there’s many like little pieces of advice that just wouldn’t fit and then I think are valuable but I guess like some some main points I would say is like even for myself starting things like the Pod or like.
Uh the Instagram page we spoke about that I had before the Pod you know things like that I really I had the desire to do things like that for some time before I did them and I think part of the reason why I didn’t do them earlier is upon reflection that I was in some way.
Sort of weighed down by um social expectations and like what other people were going to think of me and things like that and I think um it probably wasn’t even that I recognized that it was probably just like I just didn’t care anymore and that I was just gonna do it regardless I.
Think that is a big thing um and I think so much of like how we live in the things we do are defined by our social group and who and this is like super cliche that you know The Five People You spend the most time with whatever because I think even for me that whole process probably the.
Instagram page leading to the Pod was around the same time that I was connecting a lot with you and like constant student was kind of around a similar time and so for me it became like seeing all these people do stuff like that it was like okay this is now like the just the normal behavior of people.
Is to do these things and so that made it almost created space for me to then go and do those things um whereas before before then it was a lot um you know I kind of wanted these things but I didn’t really feel comfortable owning them in in a way like so it’s like it’d be a part of me where.
I’d be like chained to someone and we just wouldn’t talk about this this whole side of me the things that I was interested in well um and so I think that has been Pro yeah like a really great experience for me was that I think because now there’s I think one of the biggest learnings for me.
Through all of this has been um like things like that where I’m interested in things but I used to sort of not share with everyone so like that there were like so many things like I used to read Lots like no one knew that I read any books really like I maybe taught a.
Couple of people but not my closest friends um things like I would do like weird things like read my news on like an RSS reader which is like very nerdy but like I wouldn’t I just never told anyone because I don’t want to be seen as like yeah like I wouldn’t want to be seen as.
Like the weird guy that does the stuff um and there’s a whole list of things um you know even when I was at University early on I was like tried to start like a Shopify Drop Shipping thing you know where you like get the stuff yeah anyway so but like so I did that.
And like I didn’t tell anyone because like I wouldn’t want like other people to know that I was into this kind of thing and so that was a part of my life for a long time and I think the Pod was like the first time that I like I posted you know on LinkedIn to.
Everyone that like this is what I’m gonna do um and it was maybe like a bit nerve-wracking at the time but um now it’s I feel a lot more I’m not integrated probably the wrong word but I feel like now that I’m chatting to people I don’t have to hide this whole part of it that’s like interested in all.
This different stuff and I think that has been one of the biggest learnings for me in saying I’m grateful for and something that I think um if someone was like facing a similar challenge then I think they should um find ways to sort of overcome that feeling whether it’s by doing something in public or.
Um you know if you are sort of hiding yourself in that way then I think um maybe it’s vague like you should try and find ways to not do that because I think it’s it’s a it’s a big shame if you’re gonna if when you’re hiding them yourself and your interests so yeah I would even say like go out and.
Try and find people that where it’s okay to speak about things like that too because that’ll make it a lot easier beautiful answer beautiful answer I think morale could add to that story it’s been it’s been um yeah no but I’m I’m seriously grateful for like this whole the whole journey and perhaps that’s the Journey of.
Life is sort of peeling back the layers um of the onion and like that in some way maybe um but yeah I’m grateful that I had this experience early in my life so that I can now go and like um bring my whole self to work and wherever it is um and like to work at home and wherever it.
Might be and yeah that it’s not something after have to hide or um yeah and I’m very grateful I think it’s it’s been a very transformative experience for me so.
Conclusion#
Well thanks for sharing it with us all thanks for letting people like me be part of it and be on the podcast and all that on behalf of all you’re lovely and wise and intelligent and caring guests and uh yeah thank you I think that’s just a beautiful message to end it on I think.
It’s so valuable and important and yeah I really don’t have anything to add to that it’s just very well incredibly well said and Incredibly well intentioned you can tell you really feel that it’s not happening much more than words and something you really mean and have learned on a deep level yeah no thank you Mana yeah I appreciate.
Uh your support through this whole journey and there are many others uh you know the name uh that I’ve been really instrumental in this as well um so I want to thank all uh everyone that’s been involved in the journey it’s been yeah it’s been a wild ride and um we’ll see if perhaps season two will.
Come back and if it does I’ll be I’ll be stoked to share it with everyone well I hope there’s some form of something from you that everyone can well yeah that’s the kind of plan is to yeah we’re working on a small product to uh kind of summarize a lot of content um at least partially it’s hard to do it.
Justice but I’ll try my best and um yeah we’ll see keep an eye out for that is there anything in case just in case I don’t think you need to communicate about where people do or don’t find you or reach out to you or find you or anything like that yeah I think the first link in the description.
Should be the newsletter and that’ll be the best place to keep up to date with the goings-on um otherwise you can look at The Graduate Theory website or Graduate Theory LinkedIn is probably the best place to catch on social media YouTube as well um those would be the best places to go and keep up to date.
Awesome thanks again for listening to graduate.
Outro#
Theory we’ve reached the end of the episode now so if you haven’t already please go and subscribe to The Graduate Theory newsletter that’s where you’re going to find out everything that’s going on after this episode I really are looking forward to seeing you there and letting you know what’s coming next but yeah I want to just thank you again for.
Listening uh to this show it means a lot to me that you’ve listened this far into the episode yeah thanks so much and hopefully this has been valuable for you it’s certainly been valuable for me so until next time we’ll see you around.