This transcript has been lightly edited for readability. It may still contain transcription errors.
Kerry: As a graduate or someone early near Korea, that your, your job is, is to learn right. And to learn from others. So I think being open and comfortable with feedback is also a really, really important one as well
Intro#
James: Hello, and welcome to Graduate Theory. Today’s guest has worked in HR for over 18 years in professional services, banking,
health, sports, and now tech
she’s a former nurse
and professional athlete and passionate about developing people to be their best. Please
welcome Carrie kallenbach.
Kerry: Hi, James water. What have intro? I was wondering whether you were
really talking about maiden.
James: No, it’s amazing what you’ve managed to achieve. And
certainly like you’ve had exposure in human resources across a wide
number of domains
and had some
really interesting experiences that I’m excited to chat to you about today.
A place I wanted to start was you were telling me before the episode, That you used to walk into Deloitte and you’re in the Australia, like managing the work across australia and we had one year where you saved 20,000 applications for graduate positions. I’d love to just dive into this story.
And then here you have crazy. That was and just all the aspects of this.
Yeah, I’d love
to hear, you know, what, what
year was
Kerry having 20,000+ applications at Deloitte#
Kerry: What a great place to start.
So I started I
worked at Deloitte for,
Just under 10 years or just story about around there and started being in graduate recruitment
and, and
sort of got to a point where I’m looking at from a national perspective for Deloitte Australia and I mean, big, full global consultancy.
It was a phenomenal place to be able to get a really good grounding on graduate
recruitment neoprene. Graduates play I guess, you know, in a work ecosystem and also some of the
richness that you
can get from being in, in be places like that, but being, be places like that does mean that it’s got a great brand and a great reputation.
So, you know,
back then you’d
be out at the craze that you knew you’d be out of. Um, University society events, and we could all meet in person still.
I think that’s starting to happen now and sorry, you would meet a lot of people along the way. And in that particular year,
it was
it was just a large
intake year.
I think. Bringing IIN. I want to say, I think it was around five or
600 vacationers
and graduates
across Australia. So that led
to us, obviously having a really large number of applications as well. The Rawlings had changed as well recently with the international
students, which
meant that
now we could actually
look at international students. With visas as well,
which we hadn’t been able to
do before. So yes, we received
20,000 just over 20,000 applications. And back then we had really
strict timelines as well. We open and
close
applications.
Screened them all by
certain date,
we
try to
honestly get them all done within three to four days.
And then we would start our
recruitment process with it, with the group assessments. So it was a team, any Thai
team. They were a team of 12 of us and we would call ’em
up. Experienced interview is from each of the different service lines
to come
and help us screen or use applications. Sorry. Every single application gets looked at and rejected or.
James: Yeah. wow.
Kerry: So at the beginning of
it.
How does the application process typically look?#
James: So suddenly, wow. That’s pretty incredible. And then kind of, what does that look like? Because there are all these steps
now kind of when you’re applying, where you get to go through like
the automated testing, like the video interview and that kind of
stuff. So like, does, does everyone do those things or like
how does it kind of work in
terms of narrowing people down?
Kind of, when did I
start getting kind of okay. Getting the nose or.
Kerry: Really good question. And I think the digitalization of
recruitment
has become far more prevalent in the last couple of
years with the introduction of things like video interviewing you know, you
complete the, the, coding test before you,
you we’ll
talk to you know, all of those things
and really what they are ultimately, it’s a
screening tool, right. It’s, it’s a way to
filter candidates
out. So every employer will look for
something. Ron and the best way
you can determine what are they looking for is two things. When you jump on the website, most, most,
employee is a pretty transparent about what makes a
good candidate. What
makes someone successful in
their company?
Sorry..Have a look at things like values or principles as well because attributes and
capabilities will be intrinsically tied
back through behaviors to values or principles as well. So they’re really good. Starting places to go. What does good look
like? What are the
things that
they’re
going to be screening
for or filtering for in an application? But ultimately it is that will be using it to determine
whether they take you through to the next step. So your first point is always your resume or your CV, right? I kind of say that’s like your invitation to, to come into someone’s house.
Is,
it,
you, you pop it in the postbox and that’s their determination. Hey, you know what I like what I
see, I’d like to, I’d like to pursue
this conversation. So the first thing I always say is, make sure you’ve
got a CV. Some people still ask for cover
letters. I hope we might move on for that, but make sure they, they they’re tied back to the. The success factors or the values of the
principles. Are you referring to
them in
your cover letter? Have you highlighted
them or where you may have
demonstrated them prior
in, at
university, at your work
at your volunteer at church at sport, make sure that they are tied back
into your
application. Once you’ve got through that one, obviously then you’ll then have your different.
To what people
look for. So whether it’s a coding test, whether it’s an interview
whether it is you know, a inbox, tray,
inbox, tray, exercise, they will. all then
be filtering.
Your application based upon your ability to perform or show attributes to a certain level. So
for example, in a video interview, there’ll be
looking for communication skills.
How do you think on your fate, how you know, or they might
ask specific behavioral
questions. so it’s basically trying to
shorten the all, you know, are you the, the time that they would spend to at a later point by looking in assessing
those attributes earlier on Does that kind of help. So I think
that the process will depend on the employer, right?
But each stage
is ultimately a filtering or a screening
screening process for those attributes and capabilities, both technical
and behavioral
How many people actually get to the final interview stage from the initial application process?#
James: Yeah. Yeah. Cool. And what’s what kind of numbers,
like, I’m just curious, like, would we, would we be talking about in terms of
like how many people
let’s say percentages, maybe I getting positive video interview into them? Cause I’m guessing somebody, usually
some kind of group assessment then,
or
like some kind of more
personal
experience once you’ve done Like that.
Like how many people are kind of
getting to that stage?
Kerry: Yeah,
that.
was one of the most.
so after questions or answers, I would get a lot on
campus. And here’s the reality
E there is a number right. And it
will be determined on how
many places they
have in the program. So for example, if I take the 20,001, don’t quote me on
these. Exactly. And I can’t
remember exactly how many they
were, but we would take, I think, you know, I’ll say 500 grads that year out of
20,000
applications would probably screen it down
to about.
And then from there
we would
get a
phone screen and we
would probably narrow that
down
to
maybe seven, 600. Right. And then through there, you’d
get the
filtering process
through there, So every stage is cutoff and how that’s determined is generally from the
prior year. So what happens
your team will sit down and say, oh, okay, last
year
we took 10 graduates.
We brought 20 people
through the process cause we had a 50% decline rate. So knowing we have a 50% decline
rate next year, we know we’re going to have to bring at
least
20 candidates through. If we got. get 10 graduate CCS. So it is actually all based
upon decline rates from previous
seeds.
James: Yeah. That’s interesting. Yeah.
It’s interesting. Yeah.
I mean,
I don’t really
like some people I know that are out there, like getting
multiple offers
and they’d have to decline these kinds
of things. You
know, often, often people are kind of the reverse of that, web. if I have to have one that I
like, they get a yes at the end.
But no, I certainly,
that’s
definitely something to think about.
Kerry: And look, that’s be a big
accompanies. You
smell the companies might be a little
different, right? Smaller or medium size, just startups. They can be really
different. They’re they’re much more I used someone we can work
with. Right. And so the
technical is important. Don’t get me wrong. But when you’ve got a
smaller
team where you go a smaller company working closely
with someone for eight, nine hours a
day, you kind of want to
know,
You get along with them. Right. And, and I’m going to
prefer
my, my. My, my boss at at mantle group, Caroline
Hinshaw has an
airport
test and her airport
test
is if you were stuck in an
airport with that
person for four hours, would you want to just get on the first plane home or
you’d be like, cool. That’s
okay. I feel really, really great about
it. And I think when you’re
getting to a small place, that
airport test is super important. So the bigger companies will use pharma.
I think it’s sophisticated or advanced recruitment screening
filtering, and make it can be brutal. I’ll be really
honest.
You
know,
what I mean? it wouldn’t get to the final point. It can come down
to things such as attention to detail, grammar,
spelling. On applications. I would always
get
applications where I would
have, you know, applying to Deloitte, but I’d have one of the other big four brand
names on it and that’s like height.
Right.
We know you’re applying everywhere.
And I think he’d
be pretty silly
to think that people aren’t applying for multiple jobs, but ultimately if it then came down to two candidates, right. And
both had performed
exceptionally well through the.
process, you do have to go what what’s going
to
be to
do.
Right. And it kind of can come down. Unfortunately it can come
down
to
really minor things like spelling and grammar and attention to detail.
What steps can people take to improve their application?#
James: Yeah. I’d love to continue that kind of what CA what things can people do to
Like having pet a
chance to get to
the end of sort of these processes, because you know, there is a
lot of automation and things like that.
Now, you know,
what, like half the people
kind of
sit, like set themselves up
through this
process to have a
better chance of getting into the end.
Kerry: Yeah,
I think that is such a good point. And, and,
and I think throughout my time in, and we’ve spoken about as well and why I’ve sort of done things a
little bit
differently at managerial groupies. I think sometimes we get a tendency. When you look at how many roles
you
need
to recruit or bring through is we forget to humanize the process, right? And, and it’s brutal going through a
recruitment. It’s not
nice. You have to you
have to stand there and talk about
yourself and.
you know, put yourself up on a pedestal.
And that’s not easy for a
lot of people to do. And it’s not a natural thing. We’re not natural at talking
about ourselves to others to say how amazing we are. Right. It feels a
bit funny. Sorry. I think a couple of things I would actually go my
first one.
Get comfortable with your own elevator pitch. Right? What is it? What is it why
you so think about how you
would talk about yourself and
what you’re really good at or
what you’re passionate about.
You know, or you to, to somewhat, so practice your
elevator
pitch.
The best people you can do it too. Quite
honestly like your mom, your dad
partner because they’ll give you the most brutal feedback, right? They’ve got nothing to lose. You’re still
going to love them. Even
if they say
something cost. Sorry. I think that would be my first
point. The second one is see when you can, if
possible.
Humanized the process, go to events, go
to meet ups, go to
online seminars, try to meet people
from the company to get a bit of feel for it. I honestly,
every time we run a
sort of campaign it I’ll, I’ll, get people from
the business
message me. Hi, I just
met this person or this person reached out to me on LinkedIn. I had a really good chat
with them. And So you do you go, okay, great.
Your Joe’s recommended James. So
I’m going to have a
look for James
his application now. So
referral is always a
really, really good thing. So reach out, go go chat
with people from the company, go, to those events, go to those meet
ups
and see if you can introduce yourself.
We’ll get
to get to chat with someone from the company. I think the third one is Tyler, your
replication,
right? Every company is different. Everyone is
unique. And so really make sure that you represent that
and you cover it up or
your application that you’ve demonstrated. You’ve done some
research about the company, right?
That there’s an alignment
between what they
do and
what you want to do or where you want to
work.
Right.
And I think
that’s really, really
important. So for example
you know, a bigger corporate company we’ll have
you traditional hierarchies and your structures and processes and policies
in plights.
If someone was to write about how policies and
hierarchies is really
important for them to advance their career
and they applied to manual. It wouldn’t work because we don’t have any
of those things.
I don’t have
any HR policies. We have no performance
reviews. We have no hierarchy. So you’ve got to tailor your
application to represent one. You’ve done some research, but actually it also
aligns to what
you
want to
do. That’s really, really important because we will look for those
things. So those annoying stock
standard
questions you have to
put on an application, they get. They get.
read, because it
helps us look to go, actually, you know
what I can say that James actually is okay with a flat
structure or actually I can say James is
self-motivated. So he’s not going to need KPIs
in a performance review to, to guide him through. So there is things that are really, really.
Ultimately at the end of the day I won’t give absolute
kudos to anyone who reaches out to me directly and says, can I chat? I’ve got a question I want to
ask.
And look, I’m not might not get back to you
straight away. Follow
up. Oh, wow. Right. Show you
passion, show your DCS.
And that would be my KTC elevate page.
Go go out, meet people, humanize the
process
for you And them, right. And then yet tailor your
application to reflect that you’ve done your research And then it does truly align with what you want to
do and how you want to.
Tailor Your Application#
James: Yeah, I think that’s so important. Like tailoring your
application as well, because it can really separate.
you. Yeah.
Like if you’re sending the same resume, for example, to all these
different companies. Whereas if
he had like I saw
this
thing recently and
someone had like made a new resume using the
colors
of the company’s better platform.
So it was like a Spotify application and it had like
the grain,
you,
know, in certain places and like that gray
that’s
the dot Palo that’s on Spotify
as well.
I liked that. That would
just do one bonus for you, right? Because it shows
that, Hey, you go
Kerry: Hundred percent. Yep. Hundred percent. If you
can stand out And look, you know, the challenge you’ve got is
as well, there’s so many incredible resume templates, you
know, on, on places like can for things. And they’re all for free, right. And
Microsoft in amazing
templates, but guess what? They’re also available to everyone else.
Right. So if you’re using that amazing tip, like I
guarantee you, other
people are using that tool.
Do something really, really different. I’m thinking back
to a time where,
I had someone apply for a
role who sent their resume
in,
You know, kept reverses the
box of chocolates
and, and in each
wrapper, Was an attribute that they thought
they had, right?
So you open up, um,
so no chocolates
inside dammit, But.
inside
was, you know, like good communicator. I’m a good communicator. And now we’re
applying for a role in, in
education. And
that emphasis was, teachers always get
chocolates.
If you, you
keep your teacher a box of
chocolates.
And
so her application
was well,
here’s
my box of chocolates to you.
And I called her because I thought that was
so
clever. Right.
It was different. It
caught my attention. And I thought, this is someone I want to understand. I want
to actually learn more about them
because
this is so creative. And
is creativity important to where I was working here at was
so let’s chat.
What Mistakes do Graduates make when applying for roles?#
James: Yeah, that’s cool. That’s so cool. Um, what do you think are some mistakes that people make during this process?
Like what are some things that you say that, uh, you know, people like it’s maybe easy things, you know, you would you’d improve so much if you fixed this thing. Is there anything that comes to mind?
Kerry: Yeah, that’s a good
question. I’m sort of thinking, reflecting back on,
on kind of
you know, the. The is to say, what are some common mistakes or common
things that, I think all
plays doctor that I think the big one would be is
yet,
I think we said, look, not tailoring the application. Right. Just wrong details,
things like that.
It’s just take the time
to do that. I think the second
one would be, is not being prepared to have that conversation. Right.
So if you put in a
job application, Expect to be cold, right. I think you should just expect to be
cold.
And so sometimes people answer the
farming and remember, that’s your
first impression with your employer?
Right? It’s It’s a horrible one, but it
is. It’s your first impression to go?
This is me. I’m the elevator
pitch, so to speak. So be
prepared to talk. Right. Because a lot of the time I you
know, I read sometimes I would
speak to people. Couldn’t couldn’t understand They’re like, where have I applied for?
What do
you
do again?
Kind of thing. So it’s not a great
first impression to make, So always be prepared if once you press
send,
being ready to do elevator
pitch to it, my boss on that, if you’re
not ready, Right.
Maybe.
Right. Having, you, know, report, I know I’m getting ready
for fraud. I
don’t drink. So you, you, you study, right. And you’re in
intense exam prep, right.
Just say I’m So
sorry. I
can’t talk right?
now. Is there
a time that I can
call you?
That is totally okay to do. Don’t worry. Don’t
panic, but, but being
ready if you’re not ready to be okay to say I’m not ready right
now. Or, oh, I’m so sorry. I’m in the middle of something.
So I think that would be my biggest advice
is it’s okay to say no, not now. The other one would be
when you in the interview is or group
assessment, particularly group assessment is you’ve got to control.
Right. I, that was a number, one
thing that used to always get people screened out
is that they wouldn’t contribute.
Right. And so what we want to say in a
group
assessment style thing
is you’ll input your insight and your idea.
Right. Whether they have brought a wrong
doesn’t
necessarily matter because you don’t get any assist for technical, It’s more the behavioral, the team
aspect, just you got to
collaborate and, and
contribute to that,
It was a number one
ways. And so that
would be my peak one. I will say a tip on that one
is
often perhaps if I had someone who
was really
dominant in my group. Yep. You, you will. That will also happen in life, right?
When you’re coming into a team or you go to a client meeting,
there’s
always
someone who’s a little bit more dominant or a little
bit
more votes
in, in putting forward.
So you deal with that. It might be a gate high look. That was a really great
suggestion,
James. Thanks for leading that.
discussion.
Right. You can still contribute in ways. So
have I think about
things such as input counteraction or recognition
in group, all of those things you consider
collaboration and contribution. I think the final one would been interview, be
prepared, practice. Correct. Uh, Con I honestly can’t emphasize this enough
is to actually sit down and
practice interviewing and talking about yourself and drawing
upon
examples from your
life work uni sport,
wherever. To reflect what you’ve done. Okay. Or how
you’ve got particular skills or attributes and do your research about a company.
I still, honestly, I
think every single
time we still, get people, I
don’t know what you
do. I’m not
sure exactly what,
what, what that company does or what are the different things? The
brands you’ve
got, so
research, right. You’ll get a, you’ll get an invite in your jar or you’ll
get
advance notice if you’ve got to interview. be prepared to talk and be prepared to show what you know about that
company as well.
James: Yeah, certainly that the preparation is great. And I think even with sign with the resume, tailoring it to. The company, and it’s important to understand if you’re getting to that stage, you know, what are the company’s values?
Like? You know, you’ve got to know show a little bit of interest in
Kerry: The thing I’m going to
say, ease.
And I get so
nervous in
interviews, right? It’s a
superficial. Environment and
interview, right? It’s like, place stand here for an hour and tell
me
how
amazing you are.
Right.
It’s we don’t do that
every day. So nerves
and
feeling uncomfortable, I think are all really
normal feelings, right?
When
you
go into an interview,
but remember it’s
also a
two
way conversation.
Right. So they’re there to
say,
Hey, is
this person someone I want to work with?
And ultimately it’s
also an
opportunity for
you to
determine
is, are they people,
I want to hang
out
with
eight hours of my life every
day.
right? It’s a two
way
kind of
thing.
I think spend some
time in non interview
chat.
Right. So that’s really important that, walk to
the interview room, or when you
log on for a virtual
interview.
Be comfortable
to
have some of those
icebreaker
discussions, things like, You know, Hey, how’s it going?
how’s your week
been?
What’s been keeping you
busy.
Have
you got planned for the
Easter weekend?
All of those
conversations points
are actually
relationship building
conversation starters, right. And that’s really
really
important whether you
work in consulting, whether you work in
a product company.
The being able to converse
and communicate with
others and build
rapport.
Relationships is
really important.
So the orange underestimate
the
importance and the impact that having where the
chat
conversation
starters is in an intense.
Traits of Successful Graduates#
James: Uh, cool. I think that’s, yeah, that’s cool. Certainly. Um, I want to talk a bit more about now about, you know, if you’re a graduate, you’ve, uh, you’ve gone through this process and they actually inside the company and kind of what things you can do, you know, to, to do well and have a good experience once you’re actually in there.
I wonder if there’s certain things. And graduates that you’ve saying perhaps some go on to do like really cool stuff and really thrive in that environment. What are some traits and some things that people like that tend to do.
Kerry: Yeah. that’s a really, it’s a really
good question.
I think
my first bicep, I literally,
I
think
last week I
had
multiple conversations and
I will have a
few of our future.
Hopefully put up their hands are
being SED carry,
Around
Be kind to yourself Right.
I think
you put so much pressure on yourself
to perform well.
Right. And do
really Well, And you want
to
do
really well.
Right.
But being kind to yourself, don’t put too
much pressure,
it’s going to be a
really hard, slow right when you first
start in a job People tend
to go
really fast.
Right?
Cause you want
to make the
good impression and You want
to keep, you build
a
reputation.
you
want to show
that
you great. right.
So you
go
really hard,
right.
Things
can’t keep
going up
on
a projector like that. Right. What
happens if we keep going right you come down
Right.
Emotionally exhausted, physically exhausted. Right. So our brain
doesn’t
work
at the same level.
Right. So
I think
first
up be really
kind to
yourself.
I
think
people who recognize that
it’s a
learning.
It’s where people who do really
well is that they understand
that they’re there
to learn
and they’re
curious and
open to learning,
right? So they
know that
it’s not going to be,
I’m going to be day
one, straight
out at a client, or,
you
know, in the back
end of
a
non test environment.
Those are
the
ones that.
understand that
Observing
for a while
It’s really
important part of that
So
that curiosity is the
second one people who
would genuinely curious, well, why don’t we
do things
like that,
you know?
Is there a particular
reason.
It ha
it
happens this
way, et cetera.
So showing curiosity to understand
is
also a
really, really
important trait
and
those who
do,
do, really,
well,
because
it
also
shows interest
in others and other
things. And
that’s
actually a really important part of
building a
relationship
and
building trust with others. So
those people
who do
show
curiosity, tend
to
also build relationships quicker as well.
I think the other one would
be,
What I say,
I’ve
say
curiosity,
Said kindness to yourself.
Very, very important.
I think
the other
one is,
Openness to feedback.
So an
actual willingness to go, how
can
I be
better? So
that course mindset,
really, if
you’re thinking about it,
Is going
I want some fade
back
to understand
how
am
I
going?
What am
I
doing?
Well,
What could I be doing? differently? And that can be really
tricky.
I think when you’re a grad,
because you
open yourself up
to feel
vulnerable.
What
if
I’m
not
doing a good job? right?
What if
it’s not.
But
as, as a graduate
or someone
early
near Korea,
that
your
your job is, is,
to learn
right.
And
to learn from others. So I think
being
open
and
comfortable with feedback is
also a really, really important
one as well. And that
will most like build
your
level
of,
I guess,
comfort and
safety
in going it’s okay. if
I don’t know
everything is.
And then I think the
final one would
be,
Particularly if you’re in a
bigger
company or
is
understanding what that
journey
looks
like. What
does good
look like? You know,
a
lot of
places have
so many amazing career paths already mapped
out,
right.
Or if you’re an associate level, these are sort of the
attributes of the capabilities that make good. Right. Have a look at theories, understand
them, take some time to understand
what does
that
mean?
If it
is showing. You worry, a willingness to collaborate with
others, spend some time to go. Okay. What does
that look like in
real life? It doesn’t
mean I’m contributing in meetings. It doesn’t
mean that I offer to take the minutes. Right.
And so I think if you can understand those and either 3d manager, a people guide or HR, understand
what that looks like in a small
company, if you’re in a startup say or.
Small to me, they might not have
all of
those sort of
processes or frameworks in plates,
actually sit down and maybe
ask someone who, you know, what does good look like? Who’s someone who’s. Right. What do they
do that makes them awesome
at this company? Right. And so get an
understanding of what are the things that. you could be doing was showing to, to help that, because I think once you’ve done that it’s really, really important. I think if you know
that then it helps you set some expectations around your own expectations
as
well. So they
would be probably my key key
points. Around it, the probably the only other one is
I’m going to be really honest and say, it is
people who have you want to do
everything
right? It’s so they want to
do everything
without really understanding, going through.
First they want the breadth without getting the depth. And I think
that’s, that’s great. Right? You can learn, You
can
learn lots of, lots of different things, but as you progress throughout your career, at some point, you’re
going
to have to be able to go deep in some topics.
Right. And so.
Right. They, patient is ESE
can absolutely learn lots of different things, but also recognizing that going deeper
in some
particular topics or contents or specialist areas is also really,
really important as you progress throughout
your
career.
James: Yeah, I totally agree that. Definitely. And yeah, I liked what you said there about like a role model or someone that’s like, you know, a few steps ahead kind of what are the things that they do well, and trying
to model that, because I think, you know, often it’s hard to find, well, it’s, it’s what you make, right?
An Asian
organization. Like the people that are doing well, probably slightly different. There’s certain traits that they have. you can’t just Google, Like you know how to succeed at this company, right? like it’s a bit more complicated. So I think something like that, where you saying, Hey, this, this is someone who I really aspire to be like
with someone
that you know, is in the role that I’m aspiring to have, you know, one of the things that they
do and really trying to get.
Like improving skills. I think that’s a
great way of
doing it
Kerry: And he’s right. And I think that’s the, I said, think about how you learned best as well. So we, um, we do these individualized learning plans at Metro group for our grads and one of the, um, I’m the white name, the person, but we’ve put in there is. That wouldn’t be more comfortable around a client. Right. And so within that learning plan, what we’ve done is we’ve recognized three people within their brand who will send testing at the client side.
Right. You know, leading stand-ups do we, they’re going to shutter them for awake H right. Because to sit there they’re real observational learners. So they learn by watching. Cause then they’ll emulate it right. Doing that will bring. Far more richness to their learning and actually heisting that the opportunity to be good with clients rather than making them sit down and read a book or do a course on, you know, great customer service.
Sorry. I think being able to recognize where someone’s really good and go and shadow or go and sit down and go, you know, How do you, how did you deal with that? Why is that important? Why did you do that with the client? You know, um, why did you talk to them that way? Or why did you present it that way?
We’ll bring you absolute practical experience to.
What would Kerry change about Graduate Programs?#
James: Yeah, no, definitely. I think that’s really cool. And I think that’s really cool what you
guys are doing with that as well.
Like the personal learning plans and all that kind of stuff. And I’d love to ask as well, you’re someone that’s quite innovative or in the HR space and trying to do things a bit differently, trying to like, see
what kind of ways we can improve kind of the more traditional graduate experience, you know, what are some things that you’d like to see you know, change or, you know, what
direction do you want us to pet in with this? Is there any things that you like I’d love to see change
or, you know, in this area
with respect to grad
Kerry: Programs?
Kerry: Oh, gosh, how much time have we got? Okay. I think, um, for me, I think it’s just taking a moment to recognize, um, that they’re adults, you know, I think sometimes we forget that, um, you know, you, when, when students, um, You know, if we talk about students. Yeah. When students finish, they’re actually, they’re probably been adults for three or four years already, legally right.
Turned 18 when they joined uni. But I think sometimes we forget and we removed that autonomy or that opportunity for them to behave like adults by labeling them as grads and bringing them in as such. So we removed the right for them to have that contribution or input, um, into their own. Um, and so I think it would be just to take a moment and reflect on all the richness and diversity that people bring into a role and studies.
Just one of them, Brian. Studies one pathway into a career, but perhaps people have been working, um, you know, very, um, through it. And they’ve developed an enhanced, all these amazing skills. Um, perhaps they self taught and, and, and I think the rise of, um, online learning and, um, you know, Um, ha has contributed to a wealth of information that people have acquired by themselves, not through traditional educational pathways.
So I think it would be to recognize that they are adults and provide them the opportunity to contribute to that as well. Um, I think that the second one would be, um, don’t just think about opportunities rather than pigeonhole. Right. Is there an opportunity to expand out of that? Right. So you might’ve studied commerce at uni and you mentioned in accounting, right?
That doesn’t mean that you can only be an accountant. What are some of the skills that accountants bring and it’s things such as attention to detail, ability to problem solve? Right. So look at the skills behind a course, rather than label the person to what they started. I think would be a really, really great one.
And you know what the U S still brilliantly, right? In the us, you don’t get recruited by your degree. Um, you know, that you’ve studied something and then they look at that and I really wish, um, and I would have hoped that we’d moved on from that, but we still tend to do that here in Australia. Um, I think the other one would be to really focus on building.
Human skills. I don’t like the word soft skills, human skills, um, and, and do a much more emphasis on that because they’re the skills that actually enable someone to be successful. Right. I don’t think in my whole career I ever, when, you know, you were sitting at the table doing promotions and seller reviews going, oh, wow.
Um, what, but, but James studied at the university of Melbourne, so he, uh, he should get promoted, right? No one ever talks about that. Once you’re in a job, it’s actually based upon how you are performing. Right. And are you aligned to the way that we work and the culture and the attributes, right. So let’s focus on building those human skills that we then look at in a second.
Um, throughout someone’s career and, and really talk with him early in the Korea, enabled them to be really grown and harnessed early and then support them later.
Kerry’s Advice for Graduates#
James: One of the things that, like, I know we’re sort of running out of time now, it’s unfortunate because I’d love to chat to you. Um, but one of the questions I ask all the guests that I have on the show is, and maybe you can take this in a, in a different direction, given, given your experience with lots of graduates.
But the question I ask is, you know, if you had to restart. And then one, the quote, back to when you were first starting out, what kind of things would you do differently? Or what things would you tell yourself if you were in that environment? Again?
Kerry: Yeah. Oh, I so know this. Um, and I noticed because there’s a career change in myself multiple times. It can feel really, really overwhelming when you start something. Right. Um, our education system is designed to go. You go to. Primary school, high school, university job. Right. And so if you don’t follow that pathway, you go, I must’ve done something wrong or I haven’t succeeded as, as, as to the point that I should have.
Right. And I had that myself, you know, I finished my sport and then we need to nursing and realized that I didn’t actually want to do nursing. So what do I do? And you, you can kind of have a little bit of an identity crisis around that. My advice would be, it is okay to not know what you want to do. It is totally okay.
Your life is not over your life is just beginning, right? It’s you’re just at a fork in the road where you need to choose. So I would say be okay if you don’t know, and also if you’d go into a role or a company and it doesn’t feel right, right. You’re not being your best self. I’d stay, honestly, don’t stay.
Um, if you were giving up eight, nine, sometimes 10 hours of your life to a company, right? Um, you want to enjoy being there. You want to actually go, Hey, I’m really excited to get up to work today. I’m excited to, you know, go hang out with my colleagues. And if you don’t feel like that, just take a moment to pause and say, why not?
Where am I not feeling fulfilled? Right. Can, is there something about the role? Is there something about the way that their culture is with WorkKeys? Um, and if you don’t like it don’t stay, um, it’s too many hours of your life to spend somewhere where you’re not getting fulfilled.
James: Totally. Absolutely great. Especially when you’re young, you know, that’s the time to. Take some risks go out and find that thing that you do really, really want to do. I think it’s so important. Um, you know, that you don’t say somebody that you can’t see yourself, you know, for at least some length of time, right.
If you can’t see yourself bad, then then it’s time to decide and take that leap and go do something else.
Kerry: Exactly. You know, I think this is old and I’m, I’m not going to cite correctly, but there’s an old adage about, you know, you can have friends for a reason, a season or last time, right. So maybe Korea, right? Sometimes you got to do a job for a reason, right? It’s maybe because I just need some money right now, or I’ve just graduated, I’m going for whatever I can.
Um, you know, maybe it’s seasonal. Maybe it’s actually, you know what, I’m just going to do this for three to five years to work out what my next step is or where I want to go next. Or maybe it’s super lucky and you’ve worked out what that is right early on. And so there’s your vocation, you passionate about it.
And you know, this is what you want to do. All of those things. Um, and I think that’s a really, really important thing to know if things right now are not as they want as you want them to be. They’re feeling hard wood, all of that is okay. Right. Um, focus on what you do. Love talk to people, build your networks, um, and, and start to set yourself up to align yourself to where, where you happy.
Um, and, and where you feel like you, you can be.
Contact Kerry#
James: Yeah, absolutely. Well, yeah, thanks so much. But the chatting today, Kay, it’s been really, really interesting to hear your experiences and kind of this whole grad process. Thanks so much for your time today. Um, if people want to find out more about yourself, if they want to connect with you further, where’s the best place for them to do that?
Kerry: Oh, I’d love to, well, first before I want to say thank you so much for inviting me on James. I’ve really loved our chat. Um, if people want to write chat, um, they are so welcome to send me a message on LinkedIn, um, or they can send a, an email to me, um, at, um, mantle group. It’s just Kerry dot Callan pocket mantle group.com that I knew and I’ve left.
James: Fantastic mobile, leave your details in the show notes, wherever people are watching, so they can find out more about yourself. But yeah, thanks so much for coming on today, Carrie, and all the best with everything that’s gone on at mantle group. It’s really exciting what you’re doing, and I hope that this year and, and, um, you know, things continue to go out.
Kerry: Thanks so much, James. Appreciate again.
Outro#
James: Thanks for listening to this episode I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. If you want to get my takeaways, the things that I learned from this episode, please go to Graduate Theory.com/subscribe, where you can get my takeaways and all the information about each episode, straight to your inbox.
Thanks so much for listening again today, and we’re looking forward to seeing you next week.