This transcript has been lightly edited for readability. It may still contain transcription errors.
James: Hello, and welcome to Graduate Theory. On today’s episode, you’ll hear from my guest about her two major accidents and what she learned from those and how those have affected their life. Moving. You’ll hear about her book called naturally successful and the main lessons that she’s taken from being a leadership coach for over 25 years, you’ll also hear about her insights into nature and what it means to have a good connection to nature and how we can use, those things in our daily lives.
If you want episodes like this straight to your inbox, please click the link below and subscribe to the Graduate Theory newsletter to get episodes like this and my insights every single week. Thanks for listening. And I hope you enjoy.
James: Hello, and welcome to Graduate Theory. My guest today is a leadership expert with over 25 years of experience, she was born in Germany and moved with her family to Sydney in 2004. She passionate about the investment. My guest has overcome extraordinary adversity in relearning, how to walk twice
helping leaders better manage their energy, enabling them to develop greater influence and impact.
Please welcome Ingrid. Mesner welcome. Ingrid
Ingrid: Yeah, thank you for having me times.
Ingrid On Re-learning to Walk Twice#
James: Dollar problem. I’m so excited to chat today. I want to ask this is kind of the elephant in the room for me. This, this whole experience. Yeah. You’ve. Well, relaunch to walk twice, once is a massive process to go through. But I really want to speak about this and perhaps you can tell the story of how these situations unfolded and then even, you know, what the learning or takeaways from those things.
Ingrid: Yeah. So when you learn to walk as a child, it seems to be very easy. You fall over and you try again and you don’t think twice, and you don’t remember anything about that. And then as an adult in 2017, I went on a Bush walk during an evening in Sydney. Broke my leg. It’s, it’s not very spectacular how I broke it.
I just tripped on the track and fell very badly. So, that in itself also would not have been too bad, but if you know, a little bit about, and that to me, it’s in your knee, there’s a part called the tibia plateau, which carries all your. And that part of my bone was literally shattered. So that meant there was no way I couldn’t get out of there.
So the group I went with there to call the emergency services and it was a big of a rescue because it’s actually, even though it’s in Sydney, it’s quite remote. So I had the full rescue with ambulance, fire, brigade, water police, and all of that. And it was Interesting to observe what happened afterwards, because the moment you enter the healthcare system, you become a part of it.
And you really have to be careful that you still sort of take control and charge of your own healing and your own recovery, because there will be so many people telling you what’s best for you. And then. I see it from there quite narrow point of view. So for example, I had to have surgery. So the surgeon, obviously he did a great job and then said, I’ll go and see this physio. Which I was lucky was a physio that really understood what it means when you want to go back to sport. So at the physio, but that were like two people only. And I realized, oh, there’s so much more because it’s feels like, or it looks like, and many people talk about it. It’s just a broken bone. And yes it is.
But it also has an impact on your mental. And your emotional health and your whole social context. In my case, the whole recovery journey to walking again, was it like 11 months back to bushwalking, which is quite long, it’s longer than the usual six weeks of a broken bone. And so 11 months means you’re not part of a community.
So they’re in one night during the recovery, I woke up and thought, what are all the different elements of this? And I literally wrote down, like, there’s a lot about yourself, then there are some other people involved, but then there are also other things in work, like, even finances and money, because the whole thing costs quite a bit, even in Australia. So you have the different areas. And no one is really telling you about that. And there is no one person that’s like a navigator helping you to get through it. So I sat down and wrote all the elements down and then looked at it and thought, this is like business. It’s the same as in business, because in business, you very often facing adversity or a challenge and you have to make sure you’re okay, but you need a team around you and you have to deal with difficult stakeholders and then you have to take really care of the context and all the systems around you and bring all these three things together.
So that’s actually not very different when you learn to walk again. It’s a onerous pro process, but then in business very often it’s similar. So that, that was the learning and it was about then 2018. And I thought, oh, well that, that was a challenging experience. In the beginning of 2019, I had a viral infection, like an ear infection that killed of part of my balance system.
And before that, because it’s last something on Yeah, it’s on autopilot for all the people. When you walk, it’s like your eyes, your years, your body, tendons, and muscles and your brain there, they all work together and create this system again, a system where they keep you in bed. And the brain tries to make sense of what it hears from the right right and left.
And if one year gives a different signal, then the brain is totally confused and is going in overdrive and working very hard. So then that means that the brain. Totally exhausted. Can’t think can’t do anything and it can’t keep you upright for a wires. So what do you have to do is Richie retrain the brain circuits to say it doesn’t matter what this year says or this one just go with it, trust the rest of the body.
And so it’s like a Lyft example of neuroplasticity where you really Notice much more what’s happening around you, how your body is, how you are in connection to the environment and with my love of nature. In the beginning, I had no way of even going out or connecting to nature because my brain was really self absorbed and it’s like all the peripheral vision causes.
To very litter. And then I had to work very hard to train, to open up again, and be able to connect to the environment and walk and do everything. And it’s a process where everything you learn ever about habits and tiny habits, it’s literally like a tiny, tiny exercise every day. You can’t push it. You just have to do it every day.
And it’s very boring, but it’s like you create a little path in the brain and then over time it becomes more like a freeway. So that’s really repetition every time. So that taught me in a way, a little bit about, yeah, humility and also gratitude. And also again around you can only do it when you have the right support systems, the community, family, and friends, you have some financial matters so that it doesn’t stress you out, that you can’t work.
And so these are the things that. We totally forget and a value. And then when COVID hit, I thought, ah, okay. It’s like over again. So another virus so viruses have been there all the time. It’s like, we never really paid attention to it. And the impact on different people is different. So that’s, and that’s a learning for my work in leadership where quite often by. Focusing too much on getting something done and fulfilling a task or finishing a project. You totally forget about the other people around us. And because we might be very passionate and really want to get it done quickly. We also don’t take care of our bodies, so really not enough self care.
James: Yeah.
Ingrid: So in a way it’s repeating itself, it’s, it’s always like, do you look out for yourself?
Do you know, who’s your support system and team, and then what is happening around you in the context in the environment? And so there were very different experiences, the broken leg and the. I would have thought before that a virus audits a few weeks, but ultimately emotionally, it was much more challenging to deal with something that’s connected to the brain that something’s connected to the leg.
It feels a lot more substantial. And it’s also the difference between one thing could be seen. So everyone understood that and the other one is invisible and there are lots and lots of people around in business. And especially at the moment who face invisible challenges and we as in leadership or anywhere in business, we forget to ask people what’s going on for them internally. So, and then the intern. Would ultimately is projected to the outside world and impact how effective you can be at work and as a leader. So. You can’t really talk about or explain what’s happening internally, then it becomes really difficult to be there for your team, for example, or for other people, because if you not well, and you have a very short fuse, your anger might bubble up very quickly in a meeting.
And it’s not because of the other person, but it is because you weren’t feeling well. So it’s a little bit, it’s a balance, but in a different way, because some people said, oh, there is no balance. I, I can tell you there’s a lot of, they’d be all heft, but because it’s automatic, we don’t notice it. So it’s absolutely necessary just that it doesn’t have to be there all at the same time.
James: Yeah, cause that’s one of those three areas that you have in the book. You know, self is a big is, you know, a whole section in there where we talk about. You know how lucky you’ve been saying how important it is to first, you know, look after yourself. So then you can go out and do things, you know, from a more centered place and just to touch on some of what you’ve just, we’ve just gone through.
Using Bad Experiences as Fuel For Compassion#
James: I think it’s as challenging as those experiences where I think. It must do wonders for your, almost your resilience and like your self-confidence and belief that, you know, you’ve gone through these really, really difficult challenges and you’ve come out the other side and, you know, you kind of know that you can do these difficult things.
And I think that must be really great as you go into, you know, your career and into the coaching and the things that you do. You know, when times get tough, you know, you know that you’ve done those things before is what do you, what do you think about it? Do you think it’s, do you reflect on those experiences and kind of use them as fuel almost to, to power on to what you do today?
Ingrid: Yeah. So I think it has led more often to. More curiosity and more compassion. So for example, if I coach someone and they are really struggling usually any good coach would not have any judgment, but it goes beyond that. It’s more that you really are much more aware. Everyone does the best they can at that moment in time with the resources that they have so that everyone does the best they can.
But if, for example, they just haven’t got the resources at the moment in time, there might show a really weird behavior. And instead of then sort of reacting to that, it’s much better to sort of explore and ask and face it with a bit of curiosity saying what, what might be causing this for this person what’s going on for them and how can I create an experience for them and hold a safe space so that they can discover a solution for them. Because whatever, even for example, if there’s another person facing the similar, let’s say the infection or the broken knee, what, what my healing journey was doesn’t mean that another person would have the same healing journey. So they, they might have maybe elements of it, but it’s not that I have the answer.
And that, that’s also a thing that you realize very quickly, you don’t have the answer. And I have a lot of experience, obviously because of the years I’ve been doing this, but there might be still moments where I start out the conversation in coaching where I actually don’t really know. What the problem is, but it doesn’t also matter because I only have to be there and hold the space and give the person some questions that help them to figure it out. And so, and usually in business,
James: Hmm.
Ingrid: It should be a similar way. And I guess when you, and what I remember from. Came first and started work. You come in with uni and all your other experiences and internships and first work experiences. And you’re very much focused on, okay. I’m good. In these things. I’m like an expert in these areas and have learned a lot and that’s all true.
But there is a moment in time where you have to shift from being the expert to being more like a coach and a mentor and an Explorer, because I don’t mentally, no one will ever have all the answers, but some people never make the shift from letting go of their expertise to a degree like carrying that as their first impression.
It’s more important to have that. And then build on it with an open mind. Whereas a lot of people feel, oh, and I have this at the moment, I’m coaching some really junior people and they have the sense that I have to know. I have to have all the answers and otherwise I won’t be accepted. And when we talk a little bit, we find out is actually not true.
You don’t have to have the answers. You have to have good questions. That’s a very
James: Yeah.
Ingrid: Thing and like a genuine interest in the area and an honesty to say, okay, I know this, but I don’t know that instead of making it up, but what I’m good, I’m saying you also have to be in an environment that supports.
Type of culture. If, for example, you would have a boss that’s constantly putting pressure on you to have all the facts and figures and no, like everything like an expert, obviously you respond to that, but it’s only, it’s only good for a while because it keeps you trapped into this expert mode, which doesn’t really serve.
At the moment where everything is uncertain.
James: Yeah, absolutely. And you touched on some things there around asking the right questions. You know, you were saying, asking the right questions when someone is kind of in that place, where do you want to help them almost get out of a rock and, you know, asking the right questions to them so that then they can kind of get, get out of that brought themselves.
And then also this idea where, you know, you don’t need to know everything. It’s about asking the wrong questions. That’ll help you to understand the problem better and you know, work with your team better and things like that. In those situations, you know, I’m, I’m just curious generally about this idea of asking better questions.
Cause I think asking better questions is something that is always tricky because you know, the, the right question. Can, you know, even if it’s that this interview, for example, the right question can give you a really interesting answer or is it like not very good questions can kind of. Give you just stand it all.
This is that don’t really give you much information. So asking the right questions, I think is really, really important. The, in these examples of, you know, asking better questions, is there any, can you think of any situations maybe where someone has gone about asking good questions in the right way or perhaps like the right question is unlocked something that’s.
Yeah, really, almost like a breakthrough moment or things like that. Is there anything that comes to mind?
Ingrid: But. The thing with ride questions across the board, right?
James: Yeah,
Ingrid: Already like a judgment where sometimes you ask one question and a certain moment in time to one person and nothing happens. And then there’s a little bit to different point in time and you ask the same question to the same person and they have their epiphany aha.
Moment. Suddenly they’re like ready for it. Ready for change. So it’s a little bit like a trial and error to find this moment in time. When a question also might be appropriate. And then sometimes just sort of look out for the response, like how the person is reacting to it verbally, but also body language and all of that.
And then obviously the content of the answer. And so quite often as a general rule of thumb, it’s better to ask questions that are opening. Like with an open answer and not, yes, no. Because yes, no, it was very much closing down. So whatever you can do, ask a question that opens up a space where you explore more and then you come to a point where you discover a few options and then you have to come to the point where you close it back again.
And then they’re closing back. It might be a yes, no answer. Like, do I want option a or option B? But before it might be, I have like 30 different options. So what can help someone to open up their perspective and suddenly before maybe they were looking just in that direction. And then you ask the question, what what’s there on the other side.
And they look there and say, ah, that’s another 10 options. So it’s, it’s a little bit like how do you move people actually to look around figurative fish speaking, and then once they explore what, what can they discover? And then the, the type of question that I usually scored is when it comes with the right intention that you want to create something for them, like an experience. Where they suddenly notice. Ah, okay. This is important for them instead of you wanting an explanation of it. So it’s like the answer they are giving. Is it more about for your servers or is it more in their service and then if it’s serving them or it’s serving like in your podcast, if it’s serving the audience, then it’s a great question.
James: Yeah.
Ingrid: And sometimes the other thing at the moment that I’m seeing more or less to everyone is we really have to remember to be kind kind to us and kind to all the people around us. So we will always get it wrong. All of us. At some point in time, there will be something that is stuff up and then to accept it and move on and be just kind when it happens to someone else. So it’s like, then a good question would be okay. Why or what caused, not why, but what caused this stuff up? What, what could we both learn from it? And then that might actually then elevate the relationship to another level because the other person suddenly feels heard and understood and acknowledged. Because you are together exploring, okay, what, what caused this whole, whatever it was a conflict or something, it could, it could be very useful in a project environment, for example.
So, so quick questions on art and a science.
James: Absolutely. Absolutely. I absolutely agree with that.
What is Bad Leadership Advice#
James: I’d love to, you know, talk a bit, we’ve touched on it a bit, but you know, about your coaching and things like that. And a lot of that is focused around leadership and you know, ways that we can lead better. I want to ask, is there any leadership advice.
That you think is bad leadership advice. Is there anything that you would say leaders should not do this?
Ingrid: Oh, the ignore the context. So in, in the context and things happening, so for example, usually you would hear, people would say are a leader. Shouldn’t be. Tell, but ask. So because the telling is quite the hierarchical, what we had and what’s still prevail and in the military are in conflict and it is there for good reason and in certain situations, but it’s not very useful in other situations. So then we quite easily forget when we judge the type of leadership. In what context did it happen? So some people there are different names for it. Some people call it situational leadership or adapting leadership, but the, the main point to remember is it never happens in a vacuum. So there is always something around.
Or it was before time-wise or most likely it has a repercussion on the future. So whatever is around it. And if someone sort of, in terms of leadership development only focuses on like the here and now and only the person and maybe their team without really thinking about everything around it. It’s most likely not very effective.
So I would say it’s. So waste of training dollars in a way it goes, you’re not really connecting it back to the real world where it should be applied in a certain context.
James: Yeah, sure. I think that’s important. It’s almost like often as a, like, as a new person in an organization and things that I’ve heard is, you know, connecting what you’re doing to, you know, why the organization wants you to do that all like where does what you are doing fit in within the wider.
You know, the wider group.
Yeah, I think that’s important too, if you’re, I guess it’s the same thing. If you’re leading a team, like how does your team fit into the jigsaw of the organization and in a, not really forgetting that and treating it, like, it’s something that’s in a vacuum, like you said, by itself,
Ingrid: Yeah. Sometimes it gets the, the labor of the people working in silo. So you have one silo in an organization, another silo. If it’s a larger organization, if it’s a smaller one, it can be more conflicts between different other teams or different people. So whatever sort of separate. Instead of connects everything to everything.
I think there’s a bit tricky. It has its place. When you have an absolute emergency and it’s time critical, then you might resort to another different leadership style for good reasons. But even today where quite a lot of people with COVID, everything is stressed them. In most cases, it would not justify an emergency leadership style. It’s not really delivering a solution. But there, there are areas where it absolutely has to be, but I guess Mo most of us and the people listening to adult that they will work in this area.
James: Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. I think I think it’s important, like you said, it’s, you know, it’s coming back to that kindness. You’re talking about, you know, you know, treat everyone with respect and be kind, even if it’s in those situations. I think even too, it’s important that if you’re the leader of the group that you kind of are the one that kind of absorbs the you know, the, the, the roughness, all, you know, the, the problems that are going on and then kind of shelters the team from those things, and you still kind of turn it into kindness and then training a team with respect to things like that.
Actually.
Ingrid: Yeah.
Connection To Nature#
James: One thing I want to touch on as well is through your recovery processes and things like that. You mentioned, you know, you first, your first sort of broken leg experience was I was on a big walk and, and through reading a book it’s called naturally successful. And now I think part of that comes from, you know, the night share and things like that as well.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that is part of it. And I’d love to touch on this cause I think it’s, it is quite interesting and it’s something that. You know, that connection to nature can sometimes get lost when you’re, you know, sitting in the office all day long or, you know, sitting in like, like work from home all day long or, or whatever it is.
And I think that connection to nature, you know, is something that’s really interesting. So I’d love to speak a bit more about this with you. You know, when did you first start connecting or finding more about this connection to nature?
Ingrid: NA in, in a more, I always laughed biology and geography. So for me, it was always around. Geography was around traveling and discovering different lenses. And different countries and different people, how they respond to it. And then when I came first time to Australia in 2000, we did a tour in Kakadu national park with an Aboriginal ranger, explained to us all the, sort of the meanings, the stories, the users of like one type of tree.
And I looked at the tree and. Ah, I’ve never seen a tree, like
The, in a way, like with all the connections and all the things around it. So the trees suddenly became a whole new, different meaning. And then that, that made me curious to explore more in the indigenous world. Like how do they see it? And then later on, I did a lot of like nature meditation retreats, where you’re on your own for several days in a row outdoors.
And what do you notice when you’re outdoors there? And you’re in one spot, so you’re not moving around, like not push walking. Being in one area you notice that everything around you suddenly is connected and it’s working like a little ecosystem as such, which it is, but you, you notice that how you fit into it.
And you also start to think a lot more about things like, for example, where do you get the water? Because you have to drink something or where does the water actually come from? What do you eat? How was this food grown? What is the, the oxygen? So you can’t really survive without breathing. So where does the oxygen come from?
It comes from a tree and then any other plant. And so, and you give back. So it’s like a circular movement again. And you notice that these connections, so that’s one more like the visual physical level. And then when I did some of their work with some of the indigenous paper walks and being outdoors, they had more of this understanding that all of that is familiar.
So you’re not alone because you’re with your family relation of some plant on NML also. And that’s connected to this specific area of land and it all has its place. It follows its rules and principles. And so all of these connection points. Ultimately underlying truth and all of this, what became very clear to me and it’s not rocket sciences healthy people, and these are the healthy place. So we can’t be healthy, relieve and functional well and perform well then at work, if our body is not well. So at the moment, for example, I think yesterday or so, so headlines, I haven’t read the article, but I saw headlines that all the micro plastic pollution in the air is in the food is in the water. So obviously then that comes into our board. And not, no one can really say what that’s going to do. So there is a connection there it’s just up to few years ago, we didn’t really notice most of like mainstream. And we also didn’t talk about it too, to see it in the front page of a newspaper now like a mainstream newspaper in always quite helpful and encouraging because you say you can’t really change something before you’re aware of. So at least now it’s looks like and hopeful, optimistic that more and more people would come aware. We have the sustainability development goals from the UN. And so if every business would integrate more of that into their normal business strategy and every person, every leader in every project that you do at least have a little bit of an element of it. That could create a big shift. So nets because without like wired on natural word there will be no, Schulmans
James: Yeah,
Ingrid: Not in the, in the way how we are today. Maybe we move.
James: No, definitely. And I want to ask too, for someone that’s, you know, working in the office nine to five, or perhaps, you know, they’re at home or wherever that working, what are some ways that you think that I can grow their connection to nature, you know, become healthy. You know, or even, you know, connect to these or sustainability, you know, missions and initiatives and things like that.
What are some steps do you think that they could take to get involved?
Ingrid: Yeah. So it would be very different for each person because each of us had had very different experiences as a child. And also different opportunities from where you live at the moment. Most of our cities are not very conducive to real nature connection. However, sometimes it’s enough to find your favorite spot, maybe in a park.
Where you can sit just like a few minutes every day, or even walk through. And instead of listening to your phone or podcasts or something during that time, make an effort to be fully immersed in your environment at that point in time, because anything that you look at or you’re listening to let us not from that area, like all these, those nature sounds it takes it away to different speeds.
So to really notice what’s happening around you, even in a park, it can be a very small park to sit down on a lawn and touch the grass and be really there even that has an, a healing, a sect there there’s plenty of research, even if you were living in an apartment building, going to an office, which many people don’t do nowadays, but. You look out of the window and have a green greenery of some sort and landscape like natural enlightenment. You’re already better off than someone who looks on to the next, the concrete building. Or a concrete wall. So, and there’s research that they did with, for example, the people in the prison where one part of the prison was looking out to a landscape.
And one part was looking more to the concrete in a pod. And the people looking out to the greenery were like 24, 20 5%, less often sick. And the other.
James: Wow. That’s amazing.
Ingrid: So in the simplest version you could do with a green screen saver on your computer, even that would
James: Yeah. Wow.
Ingrid: Be really take some things. For example, I have things on my desk here, like, like this is a rock someone gave to me on one of these nature events and it’s from Afghanistan.
That’s a fantastic color. And so every time I look at it, I sort of go back to where I got this rock as a gift. And it’s one of our ways to connect with nature is in memories and thoughts. And another, another F God is like, little stick. So, and from time to time, I just tag these and remember. What type of experiences I had when I got them.
And so that is helping me because it feeds our innate need to enact nurse nature. It’s a, there’s a term for it by failure. The person who created the term sort of just passed away a few weeks or so ago. And by affiliation, Richie only means that humans have a need and, and like, being connected with nature. And I think it’s sort of, if you could label it like a survival instinct, but, but that’s my word. So it’s not scientific that they would label it like this, but that’s how it feels to me because if you are stuck somewhere, let’s say in a hotel room with no window opening, no fresh air, no greenery at all can be quite depressed.
So enter the Hales will definitely suffer. I think that’s what happened in hotel quarantine for a lot of,
James: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like quarantine is, is pretty horrible. I totally agree. And I think that was great advice. Even having like green or like some kind of nature as your, like you’ve got your background, I can see is like, you know, nice and grain, you know, even things like having plants in your room.
I know people that’s a bit of a craze at the moment is, you know, people buy plots and have them in their room. I think that’s, that’s great. Cause that’s kind of bringing that into your routine as well.
Ingrid: Yes.
James: Yeah, that’s really important, I think. And that was really interesting. I, I didn’t know that about that prison example that you gave, I think, yeah, that’s really cool.
Ingrid: It’s, it’s actually interesting because it came from a book. This Dylan Harris lost connection. Where he researches the real causes of depression and a lot of people in business, actually the senior executives very depressed and anxious, anxious, lots of anxiety levels. And one of the courses, he talked about his loss of connection to nature. So it’s one among others. There are more reasons. But the good thing is it’s scientifically proven that it’s there and indigenous people that knew it anyway, or that wasn’t stuff years ago. And so if we can combine what they knew and what is possible in today’s environment and adapted a bit in a respectful way.
And then I think we all would be better.
James: Yeah. Yeah, totally. Right. Okay. I think it’s really important and I’ve, I’ve seen other you know, research too, even just about getting outside. You know, getting into the sunlight is, is great as well because often, you know, when you’re in the office or whatever, you just, you know, like exercise, getting outside, all that kind of stuff, all comes along with this in some ways too.
So you can combine all this stuff together, like go, go for a walk through like your nearest park or something like that. I think, you know, those kinds of things do wonders. You know, for all of your health, like your mental, physical, everything.
Ingrid: Yes.
James: Yeah, I think, I think this is so important. Yeah. Thank you for raising those because I think that’s good.
And after read that book, it’s been on my reading list for a little while.
Ingrid: Good. Yes.
People that Inspire Ingrid#
James: Cool. Well, yeah, I’ve got two more questions for you. And the first one out of these two is who do you think is a good example? Or are there any people that you look up to maybe it’s through a network or whatever, or, you know, people that you’ve come across that a good example?
Four for young leaders and maybe there’s certain people that lead well or have good, you know, maybe it’s content that to, to find out more from, or is there anyone that, you know, that would be good for, for young graduates, who to find out more from.
Ingrid: There, they are different people that come to mind for different reasons. So I would not have. Like the one hero. It’s it’s more, I admire certain people for different things. So for example one of the founders of Atlas Yan my candidate. Because he is using his money to really bring the topic of climate change to the forefront.
So in a way, what he does, first of all, from all I know from the outside, and what I’ve read is at Les yarn has a really people focused culture. So I haven’t got any internal insights, so I can’t confirm it, but that’s how it looks. And then what he is doing with this. Is really based on, it looks based on his values and does something good for the environment.
And he, because he has got a voice in the media, he can. Sort of create some influence at system level. So for example, with the solar battery storage plant in south Australia, where he hit the bed with Elan mask. So I think in on last would not have responded to many people, but on Twitter, but he responded to him because he challenged him.
So I think there is a good way. So it’s a little bit. Thinking outside of the box, but being true to your values and using your voice wherever you can. And as a young person in business that can be really that when you see something and it’s important for you and your values, and you think that is a moral issue, stimulate the conversation with like a few more senior people. I think if you stimulate the perm, the conversation, like in a respectful and well-informed way you can have quite a bit of influence on that.
James: Yeah.
Ingrid: So I would not underestimated in terms of other, so that is sort of, the business was. There are other like Paul Hawken’s with the project drawdown where they have brought together lots of scientists who found different ways of hold, how to solve all the climate change problems with the existing technology and some other methods and put it all together in one book.
So he, I think as a world leader, And then there are many, many really interesting people who are very approachable in the whole B Corp. And why are men? So all the smaller companies where people had an idea and were founding based on purpose and their ability. And so that, that I think would be a good place to start if you really want to work in this area and go to the big corporations in Australia and around the world I think there are so many good leaders and companies and from all different fields.
So you’re not bound to like one area and. There are also companies like who gives a crap with the toilet paper and, and she was suddenly during COVID became really famous. And she was the brilliant the way how they started was really built on. And if you look up all the videos from the very beginning when they had the, I think he kickstart or indigo campaign that there was really interesting.
So I’ve supported them from lied from the start and then seen how they grown. And now the subscription as you get your box of toilet paper and tissues and paper towers, and they have given already millions for. Folate and sanitary buildings. So that’s great. So there are many inspiring paper.
Ingrid’s Advice for New Graduates#
James: Yeah. Cool. That’s great to hear. And I’ve got one last question for you today, Ingrid, and that is about people starting their career. You know, people starting their career in 2022.
Ingrid: Okay.
James: One piece of advice, or what advice would you give to young people starting their career in 2022?
Ingrid: In 20, 22, or I feel with you to start your career now and we post what what’s what’s happening. It could be actually an advantage. But usually starting a career is like a Rite of passage point where you would have done certain things before that because of COVID haven’t happened. So what might be good to find some area where you really focus further developing yourself?
You’re self aware. And that could be an oil sorts of ways. It could be, it was meditation. It could be with journaling, it could be yoga, it could be just conversations with other people. So then you become more and more aware of who you are and what you want across. The biggest thing will be in 20, 22 and most likely next year as well. You come in and everything is so uncertain and complex. So it’s very challenging to say this is actually my vision or a longer term thing. It might be enough to say I would like to learn these five things and the next year. And these are my passions and this is my purpose. How do I bring this together and find the right organization to work in this area?
And then during the year, take it step by step and sort of check in. Is it still what you wanted to. Or is it that suddenly other people have pushed you into something where actually in the beginning you didn’t see it coming, but then over time it sneaked in. And so you lose a little bit yourself. And so it’s good to sort of, when you’re learning about yourself to put in like regular checkpoints, let’s say every month or quarter, or you check in, is this really what. And what’s the next step for it. And then take it maybe in shorter bursts. There are some people are most likely finishing now have a long-term vision and go, and that’s great. As long as they can hold it loosely and say, I might not get there in a straight line, but I might take many detours, but I still hold it there.
Like a beacon, like a light. That I can sort of follow, but it might not go straight. I might go and do some detours and maybe while you’re on a detour, you notice, oh, actually this is much better. And then that’s where the check-in point comes in where you notice actually now I know enough about myself. I have the courage to say no, I’m actually changing my goal and that’s fine. So that’s how I would approach it. These like, long-term. Hmm, visions and goals. They’re they are good, but only if you hold them quite likely
James: Yeah.
Ingrid: Having said that you would find a few people who do that and they are brilliant.
James: Yeah.
Ingrid: My father, majority, I think it serves them better and their emotional and mental health.
If they say it’s okay to change and not know, it’s okay to really not know, and then take a breath. Explore what’s around. You decide something, try it like an experiment and then learn something from it and to the next step. And that’s okay. It’s it’s you don’t have to know everything impossible.
James: Yeah, no, it’s very true. And I, I liked that, that thing you mentioned about having those check-ins with the. Every so often to reflect on where you are and where you’ve been and where you want to go. And just checking if way, you know, the direction you’re heading in is still that someone that you want to go and really taking the time to consider that.
Cause I think it’s easy just to kind of flow down in one path and never really consider we’ll stop to think about the alternatives that could be the alternative things that you could be pursuing. So I think, yeah, that’s a really great,
Ingrid: Yeah.
James: Great point. Absolutely.
Ingrid: Yes. And one, one last thing I really recommend. So Joanne Hari has written another book called stolen focus, and I think every person should read it, especially people starting and younger people who use social media and use a lot because it sort of is contradicting what we just talked about because in a way it’s He’s writing about what, how, like, for example, big media companies, Facebook and the like stealing your attention by manipulating and tracking what you’re going to do and that you can counter that only so far with. But there has to be something else around it. And the first step to change is always just to be aware of it, not nothing wrong with them as such. And don’t say that social media is bad. It’s more to be aware that sometimes you might be slowly, slowly steered into a direction without noticing that someone is manipulating you. And then when you’re aware what you really want. And you can block out for awhile what’s happening around you. And most likely you’re better, often more happy and healthy for a longer period of time. I think the book is really good.
James: Cause I know it came out only only recently as well, so yeah, it’s, it’s on my to read list and so I’m really excited to get to it soon cause yeah. Yeah. I’ve been thinking about reading it for a while. I know he’s been hiding it for a while, so I’m excited to get my hands on it.
Outro#
James: But yeah, thanks so much for our chat today. Ingrid. I think it was really fascinating hearing your story. Yeah about your recoveries and you know about this idea of connecting with nature. I think it’s really fundamental in today’s day and age. So thanks so much for coming on the show today
James: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Graduate Theory. If you’re interested in getting my takeaways from this podcast, please click the link in the description and go to Graduate Theory.com, subscribe to the newsletter, and you can see my top three takeaways from this episode. If you’re really interested, please click subscribe or wherever you may be listening.
I hope you enjoyed this episode and I look forward to seeing you next.